Episode 43

Providing Value and Improving your Mindset with Tim Seims

“Open doors and make connections” - Tim Seims

 

Our guest today is highly knowledgeable and passionate about construction and building. He is here today to shed some light on the current trends in the building world. Tim Seims has his hands in all facets of building and construction, from building products, manufacturers, to even co-hosting a popular building podcast “Building Perspectives”. He has made a name for himself as a consultant which is why we are so excited to have him on our podcast to give us an in depth look into some interesting topics in construction and the future of the business.

 

We get to the root of the building and construction business, such as the empathy required in this field as well as putting major importance to bringing value to clients and how important mindset is in this industry. Also, climate change is a major topic that should be touched on in any industry, especially in construction. We go over Tim’s thoughts on the matter and what we can do to bring down the carbon footprint.

 

This industry has a low barrier to entry, so Tim gives young newcomers in the business some sage advice on how to get started and what they have to look forward to. As well as advice for businesses on how to attract young people with new technologies such as the blockchain, augmented reality, and the metaverse.

 

Tune in for an enlightening conversation with a building industry extraordinaire!

Topics discussed in this episode:

·     How Tim started in construction

·     Tim’s goals with his podcast

·     Tactical empathy

·     How Tim brings value to clients and the industry

·     The importance of mindset

·     How to get into the building business

·     How climate change is affecting the construction industry

·     Resilient builds

·     Mass timber

·     Advice for newcomers to construction

·     Tim’s view on the future of construction

Connect with Tim Seims through LinkedIn or give him a call or text at (425) 492-0973. Also, listen to Tim on the Building Perspectives podcast on Apple Podcasts!

 

To hear more Construction Disruption episodes, visit us on Apple Podcasts or YouTube.

 

Episodes are sponsored and produced by Isaiah industries, a manufacturer of specialty metal roofing systems and other building materials. Learn more at https://isaiahindustries.com

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Episodes are sponsored and produced by Isaiah industries, a manufacturer of specialty metal roofing systems and other building materials. Learn more at https://isaiahindustries.com



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Transcript
Tim Seims:

It almost always comes down to the wallet.

Tim Seims:

And the wallet is the motivator.

Tim Seims:

People don't wake up in the morning and look in the mirror and say to themselves,

Tim Seims:

Everyone in this industry that I've met has good intentions when they go out.

Tim Seims:

But then the nuances of the industry just tend to hammer you and beat you down.

Todd Miller:

Welcome to the construction disruption podcast, where we uncover

Todd Miller:

I'm Todd Miller of Isaiah industries, manufacturer of specialty metal,

Todd Miller:

And today my co-host is Seth Heckman, also of Isaiah Industries.

Todd Miller:

Our goal here at Construction Disruption is to provide timely and forward looking

Todd Miller:

As part of that, we always look at new innovations as well as trends and

Todd Miller:

Basically, if we come across something that we think is going to be rising to the

Todd Miller:

Pleased that today on Construction Disruption, our special guest is Tim Seims.

Todd Miller:

Tim has a great deal of interest in and knowledge of construction.

Todd Miller:

Over the last 25 years, Tim has done sales for companies such as Builders

Todd Miller:

Tim has also been director of building products, intelligence for the new Home Trends Institute.

Todd Miller:

And he is currently self-employed with a variety of projects that he's working on for

Todd Miller:

One of his specializations is go-to market strategy for building products

Todd Miller:

And what's more, along with Carolina Albano he is also co-host of the

Todd Miller:

Tim, welcome to Construction Disruption.

Tim Seims:

Seth and Todd, thanks for having me.

Tim Seims:

After listening to so many episodes it's exciting to be here with you.

Tim Seims:

And I'm having a little bit of microphone envy.

Tim Seims:

I'm gonna have to get some mics like you guys have.

Tim Seims:

That's really cool setup you have, and I'm really grateful to be here.

Todd Miller:

Thank you again for joining us.

Todd Miller:

Yeah, I find I can hide behind it or something like that.

Todd Miller:

So if I don't shave, no one knows that's good.

Todd Miller:

Thank you again, Tim, for joining us today.

Todd Miller:

I really can sense that our conversation because of your breadth of experience in this space,

Todd Miller:

I just wanna start and ask, what do you really like about the construction industry

Todd Miller:

I know some of us were born into it and others just landed there.

Todd Miller:

But curious to know a little bit about your own history.

Tim Seims:

Yeah.

Tim Seims:

When I was growing up, my dad worked with a bunch of remodel companies and mostly did a bunch of

Tim Seims:

And I always said, I wasn't going to do that.

Tim Seims:

As a young person sometimes were at least I was like, I don't wanna

Tim Seims:

And as I'm getting, as I got older, actually.

Tim Seims:

Fell into a couple projects.

Tim Seims:

And I realized, oh, okay.

Tim Seims:

I do like this.

Tim Seims:

And it was really cool because then I had even more in common with my dad and

Tim Seims:

But that was how I got started.

Tim Seims:

And one of my favorite things about the construction industry is the low barrier to entry

Tim Seims:

There was a calculator I used to pass around James Hardy because one of the James Hardy things at the

Tim Seims:

And the calculator showed , okay.

Tim Seims:

During the time when all my friends were in college, as a young

Tim Seims:

But I had earned.

Tim Seims:

I earned a lot of money during the time they were in college.

Tim Seims:

And then I also didn't have any student debt.

Tim Seims:

And and I was having a lot of fun.

Tim Seims:

I could drive by projects and you could point to it, and say, Hey, I worked

Tim Seims:

You can see it from the street, the pro product I installed on the building.

Tim Seims:

So I just kinda love the artisanship and the pride that comes from that and how quickly

Tim Seims:

If they're interested in it.

Tim Seims:

Yeah,

Todd Miller:

know, that's a great perspective and I've never really thought

Todd Miller:

But yes the ease of getting involved in a, in an exciting industry that always has growth

Todd Miller:

I know one of the things I love too, is out traveling in the middle of nowhere

Todd Miller:

And I'm always telling my wife, I'm like, huh, I don't remember that project.

Todd Miller:

And she's Member all of your projects and I'm really you'd be surprised probably,

Todd Miller:

So very interesting.

Todd Miller:

So tell us a little bit about build perspectives.

Todd Miller:

I know you're you do that with Carolina Albano, who you have been associated with for a number

Tim Seims:

bet.

Tim Seims:

We originally started recording actually at the behest of Zach and Beth from the

Tim Seims:

So it just basically hit record and they sent us a little document that

Tim Seims:

And we were AIA and we actually walked by the Rockwell boat booth and anyone

Tim Seims:

They have that sound.

Tim Seims:

Dead mean tunnel.

Tim Seims:

And so we wanted to see what the sound was like, and we recorded like a little test.

Tim Seims:

Wow.

Tim Seims:

What a difference in the sound.

Tim Seims:

And so we're like why don't we talk about that?

Tim Seims:

And what talked about how so many people think AIA and these trade shows

Tim Seims:

And so that, that's what started it.

Tim Seims:

And we had good a good rapport, obviously still do.

Tim Seims:

And we both wanted to do the same things and we wanted to get content out there.

Tim Seims:

Most of it was around originally about we, we actually called it facades cast in the

Tim Seims:

But it turned into more kind of existential information about the industry.

Tim Seims:

And my dad had always used this saying that he said that there are four things you can never have

Tim Seims:

And I always thought perspective was really interesting.

Tim Seims:

So we I talk about that my whole life.

Tim Seims:

With the kids, you can't have too much perspective, and try and understand other people.

Tim Seims:

And so we thought how does that translate into the industry?

Tim Seims:

We got to talking about it and sharing different people's different stories and their linear or

Tim Seims:

Different ways to look at our own careers if we're already in the industry and then

Tim Seims:

So it's all about.

Tim Seims:

Trying to there's a book Chris Vos wrote, this says it's called never split the difference.

Tim Seims:

And it's a really a negotiating book, but he talks a lot about tactical empathy in that

Tim Seims:

So that's really what we endeavor to do and then share what we find and

Tim Seims:

It seems like so far folks have it's a lot of.

Tim Seims:

I

Todd Miller:

Wow.

Todd Miller:

I love that, trying to understand the other person and how life changing that is and how

Todd Miller:

But faith love, hope and perspective.

Todd Miller:

I've never heard that before.

Todd Miller:

I love it.

Todd Miller:

Good stuff.

Todd Miller:

Tell your dad's a wise man.

Todd Miller:

Nice man.

Todd Miller:

So I'm curious, switching into the consulting you're doing and the work

Todd Miller:

What are some of the projects, or can you share with us some of the things you've done

Tim Seims:

find that the consulting field, a lot of times, especially in the building product

Tim Seims:

That a lot of times they're purchasing research or getting consulting to

Tim Seims:

And so then you're crowdsourcing this information to, to make informed decisions.

Tim Seims:

And I love that.

Tim Seims:

I love the research and the market sizing and sort of dead aggregation that we,

Tim Seims:

But on the other hand, it's all about what people want and need for their business.

Tim Seims:

And everyone's trying to grow their business.

Tim Seims:

They have, there's all these different challenge there, even more challenges probably than

Tim Seims:

So everyone's basing all these things and there is a lot of research out there,

Tim Seims:

There's this.

Tim Seims:

Illustration in my mind at all times my optics on the industry and anything

Tim Seims:

And so a lot of times folks, for instance, wanna go after the biggest builder or the biggest GCs

Tim Seims:

So what we try to do is is in my mind, at least when I'm having these conversations

Tim Seims:

Where is the company?

Tim Seims:

Where are you as the leader of the company as a mindset on the adoption curve?

Tim Seims:

Okay.

Tim Seims:

And then from a vertical standpoint is finding, okay, here are the targets.

Tim Seims:

Here are the segments, here are the targets and here's where you wanna position for growth.

Tim Seims:

And the biggest part of that conversation is you could, as a deliverable to the client,

Tim Seims:

A lot of times consulting is about delivering the report and saying, let

Tim Seims:

But the next step is really to open doors, roll up the sleeves, get the right

Tim Seims:

And that's the framework that the conversations end up in.

Tim Seims:

And so that's what I find myself doing is making those connections so that

Tim Seims:

And that it's so important right now because in an effort to aggregate and streamline

Tim Seims:

Actually adding more layers and more complexity.

Tim Seims:

So now you have multiple layers in the prefab world where it's actually

Tim Seims:

In a lot of cases, it's making things more difficult and it's not the technology,

Tim Seims:

And so we're trying to knock down those barriers under the framework, often of NDAs to

Tim Seims:

I can't tell you how many times we work on products in this industry where

Tim Seims:

Research or voice a customer work.

Tim Seims:

But on the other hand, there's a lot of quality work in that regard.

Tim Seims:

So just trying to get that information and that framework in the right people's hands and then

Todd Miller:

know I love that idea that, Hey, I'm gonna bring people together

Todd Miller:

We've talked about that before with other guests also how much more we can accomplish when we

Todd Miller:

Great concept.

Todd Miller:

Very good.

Tim Seims:

I like that silent, siloed and competitive.

Tim Seims:

I'm gonna, I'm gonna remember that.

Tim Seims:

I was telling prefab.

Tim Seims:

Oh, so a volumetric modular manufacturer startup.

Tim Seims:

That's a lot of words altogether, isn't it?

Tim Seims:

Anyhow, we were talking about different things in the prefab world.

Tim Seims:

And one of the big bugga boos with prefab is the building envelope and

Tim Seims:

And so it, the, how do we get rid of the boxes, bags and buckets?

Tim Seims:

So I try to like group things like that.

Tim Seims:

So I can remember with the concepts.

Todd Miller:

I love it.

Todd Miller:

Boxes, bags, and buckets.

Todd Miller:

Good stuff.

Todd Miller:

So one of the things I've seen you write about recently, and I think you had also talked

Todd Miller:

I'm curious.

Todd Miller:

I'd love to hear about that.

Todd Miller:

I don't see that happening in our area here in the Midwest yet.

Todd Miller:

But would love to see where you're happening and where you're seeing that

Tim Seims:

Yeah it's a really interesting category because it's

Tim Seims:

Like a lot of other countries have had.

Tim Seims:

And I have to say a shout out to Mark Mitchell, and I'm glad he's feeling better.

Tim Seims:

And also great friend.

Tim Seims:

He's another one who encouraged us to do a podcast, just like he says,

Tim Seims:

And so that's what we did.

Tim Seims:

And he's been a great positive influence on Carolina and I, and of

Tim Seims:

So when we think of the build for rent space, there are some interesting constraints

Tim Seims:

And so for instance, with multi-family a lot of times you're dealing with syndicators

Tim Seims:

Different in how the capital is stacked and then you have the valuations are different.

Tim Seims:

So with and time horizon.

Tim Seims:

So with multi-family their time horizon is like a, typically a three to five

Tim Seims:

So they sell the, sell it and flip it in three to five years on average, and then

Tim Seims:

That's sold, there's a one year warranty.

Tim Seims:

If it's longer, it's usually a third party that carries the warranty.

Tim Seims:

So the builders kinda out the picture, they also depend a lot on the local cap rate for multifamily

Tim Seims:

When you look at single family bill for rent, they have typically those developers,

Tim Seims:

It's seven to 10 years if not longer.

Tim Seims:

They don't really when and oftentimes they're.

Tim Seims:

They're funding it fully themselves.

Tim Seims:

So it's a giant fund often a rolling fund or some institutional wealth

Tim Seims:

And so they'll buy or build these communities to spec just for bill to rent, but because

Tim Seims:

Cuz there are a lot of.

Tim Seims:

There's a lot of pressure be when you're dealing with so many investors into the fund to really

Tim Seims:

So there's, it's a different mindset with that product.

Tim Seims:

When they're coming in, they don't have to deal with typically when they're thinking

Tim Seims:

And then also they don't have to worry about appraisals and comps because they're not,

Tim Seims:

So they just kinda have a different way of thinking about it.

Tim Seims:

And so what that does is it frees them up to try different technologies.

Tim Seims:

It frees them up to deploy the capital in terms of asset allocation.

Tim Seims:

Maybe spread it to some manufacturing like prefab instead of just site build or take

Tim Seims:

Build the properties.

Tim Seims:

So they can look at these things a little differently from the lens really is

Tim Seims:

And when they, when you're, when they're building something for rent, there's

Tim Seims:

The other thing that's important is when they have really durable products, they're not having to

Tim Seims:

So when they're thinking that timeframe they don't want to do a capital call to

Tim Seims:

They need to have a good set of reserves and also durable products, so that they don't need to do

Tim Seims:

Except for just their quarterly normal calls until they sell the portfolio,

Tim Seims:

It just, that sort of, they're taking the friction out of that whole process.

Tim Seims:

At least that's the goal hasn't been easy because them getting out of the ground

Tim Seims:

So that's the highlights of the difference between the three segments and why it's such a fascinating

Tim Seims:

Foundations or first floors, they can use mass timber.

Tim Seims:

They could use panelized or kitchen and bathroom pods and they can of handle the deployment of when

Tim Seims:

But when you're dealing with a fund, you're just telling the investors

Tim Seims:

This is what we're doing.

Tim Seims:

So anyhow, that those are the biggest differences that I saw.

Tim Seims:

And I know it's a long Diri, but it's also a big segment.

Tim Seims:

So it kinda deserves a little air.

Tim Seims:

You

Todd Miller:

No.

Todd Miller:

It's very interesting.

Todd Miller:

And, so I have a better understanding of it now, again, haven't seen this happen here in our

Todd Miller:

One of the questions I was going to ask was, is there any opportunity for

Todd Miller:

But it really sounds one opportunity would be for a smaller investor to get involved with a

Tim Seims:

could see.

Tim Seims:

So there's a big demand amongst the build for rent.

Tim Seims:

Institutional money, especially because they're not builders.

Tim Seims:

The big demand is for strategics fee builders that are going in on the project with them,

Tim Seims:

So there's a lot of flexibility in finding the right fit.

Tim Seims:

Some markets, they might have a builder that's just working for them as a fee builder.

Tim Seims:

And they're just turning these communities over in another market.

Tim Seims:

They might do a joint venture because that's the only way they can get the project done.

Tim Seims:

But it's not sustainable for them to just keep buying homes from, for sale builders.

Tim Seims:

They're not built to go through thes as a single family rental like a for

Tim Seims:

Just cuz it's a, it's not built as a rental.

Tim Seims:

So it's that's how people can get it.

Tim Seims:

Now there across the country.

Tim Seims:

There's a whole, it's been around for a hundred years.

Tim Seims:

It's the renovate to rent.

Tim Seims:

Segment.

Tim Seims:

And that's how some folks get into this space from a grassroots level or Greenfield

Tim Seims:

Okay.

Tim Seims:

This set that concept's been around for a long time, but they do that 30 times.

Tim Seims:

Now they have a portfolio, they do that a hundred, 200, 300 times.

Tim Seims:

They may still be building for sale product, but they have this build

Tim Seims:

And then they could sell that whole portfolio to one of these bigger companies

Tim Seims:

And we've seen that progress by not only nationals, but the regionals and

Tim Seims:

So you can literally start with one.

Tim Seims:

Older home, fix up, lease it up and then do that a few times.

Tim Seims:

You can sell a portfolio as small as 20 or 30 of these homes, even if they're spread out

Tim Seims:

It sounds easy.

Tim Seims:

There's a lot, there are a lot of moving parts to make that happen, but

Tim Seims:

And one thing interesting to keep in mind about that is in Memphis.

Tim Seims:

I'll take one example.

Tim Seims:

There's a turnkey operation that does this.

Tim Seims:

They send out these mailers people probably get 'em all the time.

Tim Seims:

You guys might get 'em at your house.

Tim Seims:

Like we'll buy your home.

Tim Seims:

That's either a house flipper or a renovate to rent operator.

Tim Seims:

And in Memphis there's a renovate to rent operator.

Tim Seims:

I can't tell you who they are, but basically they have their own lumber yard.

Tim Seims:

They have their own pickers and polars.

Tim Seims:

They have their own prefab, they have their own procurement people,

Tim Seims:

And they go out and they fix up these homes.

Tim Seims:

They lease 'em up, they manage the property.

Tim Seims:

They get to a certain amount of time when it's stabilized, decide when,

Tim Seims:

Sometimes they'll flip it to an individual investor or a portfolio, or they'll just add it to

Tim Seims:

But that tells me, that, that lumber yard should know who these people are.

Tim Seims:

They may just seem like a remodeler when they come in, but treat them like the

Tim Seims:

Yeah,

Todd Miller:

Wow.

Todd Miller:

That's really been eyeopening for me.

Todd Miller:

I've just never thought about those different segments and also about how those different

Todd Miller:

Very, just never thought about this fascinating stuff.

Seth Heckaman:

just a few years difference in the whole time.

Seth Heckaman:

All of a sudden changes the perspective completely.

Seth Heckaman:

Yeah, very interesting.

Seth Heckaman:

You, one comment you made was traditional construction loans and the schedule and the

Seth Heckaman:

Of prefab.

Seth Heckaman:

Can you we've had modular construction, offsite kind of construction has

Seth Heckaman:

I'm curious.

Seth Heckaman:

Tell us a little bit more about that.

Seth Heckaman:

And our banks starting to get a little bit more flexible in response to skilled labor

Tim Seims:

Banks, aren't that conciliatory to.

Tim Seims:

Changing anything with how they lend in and they, frankly, they don't have

Tim Seims:

So it's either a self-funded, where basically it's of hard though, if you have 200 units

Tim Seims:

So that's why you see people starting rolling funds to be a bridge loan for the manufacturing,

Tim Seims:

That's not been their discipline cuz they're manufacturers, but they're getting more

Tim Seims:

So they, they need to keep that going.

Tim Seims:

And there are new factories coming on board that are also different handled differently.

Tim Seims:

Whereas instead of raising, 50 million or getting a commercial loan for part of

Tim Seims:

So there's there a lot of different creative things, right?

Tim Seims:

The banks, they have their place.

Tim Seims:

And I don't think that's gonna change that much, but it's gonna be more private money.

Tim Seims:

You could see like a rolling fund or even Dows and specs or looking at how can we get

Tim Seims:

With the money, so it's really a fascinating time for finance in the area, but it's still

Todd Miller:

know, I, the town I live in is a city of about 20,000 in a county of

Todd Miller:

But it was just announced yesterday that the city I'm in the 20,000 is getting a new employer.

Todd Miller:

That's going to employ about 1200 people.

Todd Miller:

And, I'm thinking about the strain.

Todd Miller:

That's gonna put on our housing stock.

Todd Miller:

And of these things you're talking about that right now are foreign to me because of this

Todd Miller:

So very interesting.

Tim Seims:

You might see a play out right in front of your eyes there.

Tim Seims:

And I think it's, I think it's important for manufacturers to think about this

Tim Seims:

And of course now part EFS, but they still kept their name.

Tim Seims:

It's called spin Bernard.

Tim Seims:

And one of their sales people really just specializes in working with.

Tim Seims:

Prefabs and and that whole, that kind of mindset now, mostly in the custom, but it's even on

Tim Seims:

Or you start to see this at events.

Tim Seims:

Like I saw advancing prefab in Phoenix last week, where manufacturers building

Tim Seims:

Those are so important because of that focus on if everyone's working on it, that's great.

Tim Seims:

But you end up getting diluted not diluted.

Tim Seims:

And so then and when people have that focus, the company's investing in it, then it's

Tim Seims:

And then.

Tim Seims:

They're first top of mind person when it comes to actually building the units and shipping

Tim Seims:

So I think it's so important in that.

Tim Seims:

And I'm grateful that the industry is seeing this as important, where you actually are

Todd Miller:

Very good.

Todd Miller:

So switching gears here, one of your recent podcasts had a topic that we

Todd Miller:

We had a couple of guests, crystal ager, and Catherine Prosci who are both

Todd Miller:

And we talked about changing weather patterns and how that's impacting the

Todd Miller:

I think it goes.

Todd Miller:

Beyond just the weather change.

Todd Miller:

That's necessitating that need for resilient construction to the fact that we simply

Todd Miller:

Curious is this something you're starting to see a lot of manufacturers

Tim Seims:

should.

Tim Seims:

Asked right now.

Tim Seims:

That's a really important question to ask right now.

Tim Seims:

And it's timely.

Tim Seims:

People say, oh, it's, it's late.

Tim Seims:

The construction industry's lad.

Tim Seims:

I've seen fascinating people do fascinating things in the industry.

Tim Seims:

And there's a lot of, there's a lot of development and understanding in the building sciences in

Tim Seims:

And people like Matt resinger and mark Willy and Dave Cooper have done a lot

Tim Seims:

I love their Dave Cooper, mark Willie's show on Friday's BS Fridays about

Tim Seims:

It almost always comes down to the wallet.

Tim Seims:

And the wallet is the motivator.

Tim Seims:

People don't wake up in the morning and look in the mirror and say to themselves,

Tim Seims:

Everyone in this industry that I've met has good intentions when they go out.

Tim Seims:

But then the nuances of the industry just tend to hammer you and beat you down.

Tim Seims:

But what we're starting to see this resilience and hardening of the structure.

Tim Seims:

Post construction.

Tim Seims:

And before construction and material selection be a more, an increasingly

Tim Seims:

And it build for rent comes into this too, because, and multi-family because

Tim Seims:

A couple years ago, Moodies acquired 4 27, which is a climate research firm.

Tim Seims:

And they do some really quality work, probably not unlike your guests do.

Tim Seims:

And that, that re those reports go to BlackRock.

Tim Seims:

They go to these big res and they go to the insurance companies mostly,

Tim Seims:

Okay.

Tim Seims:

And so your rates are gonna be this, or we're not even gonna offer you coverage for that.

Tim Seims:

You're gonna have to.

Tim Seims:

Ensure that scope folks, aren't gonna do that.

Tim Seims:

They're gonna make changes in the material.

Tim Seims:

They're gonna make changes in the wall assembly in the in the mechanical systems, whatever they

Tim Seims:

These things come into play now and insurance commissioners of the states, attorney generals,

Tim Seims:

And the department energy helps a lot with that.

Tim Seims:

So you take all this data and this mindset, and now you get money involved

Tim Seims:

Now you start to see movement.

Tim Seims:

It's not that people didn't wanna do it before, but there was just

Tim Seims:

And it's and it just didn't make sense or they just wouldn't build the

Tim Seims:

So when manufacturers are working with builders, it should understand.

Tim Seims:

And back to that tactical empathy, what the builders and the underwriters are really up

Tim Seims:

We're gonna hold it for three years while you put this together.

Tim Seims:

So they're factoring in these increases at a certain point.

Tim Seims:

It just doesn't pencil anymore.

Tim Seims:

So are they gonna sell the land or are they gonna change the product?

Tim Seims:

They're gonna change the product, but now they need help figuring out

Tim Seims:

Why should they be using it?

Tim Seims:

How does it dollarize into the, into their metrics and their figures.

Tim Seims:

Manufacturers need to understand that more than ever now.

Tim Seims:

And I am seen and folks have these conversations and I love it because it's exactly the

Todd Miller:

Curious, what are your thoughts as far as energy efficiency and also solar

Todd Miller:

Because for the builder developer, maybe there isn't so much of financial

Todd Miller:

Situation there certainly would be.

Todd Miller:

But I'm just curious, where do you see the incentives for energy efficiency and solar

Tim Seims:

We're not seeing any more energy coming to the grid as of any scale over the

Tim Seims:

And then you have electric vehicles, you can see that the market share of

Tim Seims:

Just of course is going up month by month at this point.

Tim Seims:

So you have all this all this increased demand on the electric grid.

Tim Seims:

But no supply.

Tim Seims:

Okay.

Tim Seims:

So now what do you do?

Tim Seims:

You can make a more efficient grid.

Tim Seims:

Okay.

Tim Seims:

That's happening.

Tim Seims:

You can see that in Texas, they realize they had a problem with that storm.

Tim Seims:

So they're making a more efficient grid which that's oversimplification as.

Tim Seims:

That's the extent of my knowledge about it too.

Tim Seims:

But when you talk, when you think about these communities of say, build for rent You and in

Tim Seims:

You need a clubhouse, you need an office, you need a maintenance person there.

Tim Seims:

You need, you have different parking things that come into play and so forth a pool,

Tim Seims:

So you have more understanding at the developer builder level at the same time,

Tim Seims:

We need energy storage.

Tim Seims:

We need solar.

Tim Seims:

We need solar, thermal.

Tim Seims:

We need geothermal whatever's right for that project.

Tim Seims:

We should be at least considering it.

Tim Seims:

Can we underwrite with that in mind?

Tim Seims:

Considering we're, if bill for rent, we're paying for probably 30% of the power with all the street

Tim Seims:

There are some rebates.

Tim Seims:

Could we maybe get some help from the city in terms of offsetting some of these costs over time

Tim Seims:

And more real of a conversation by builders.

Tim Seims:

You never thought it would have gotten involved with these products and strategies 10 years ago.

Tim Seims:

It's now part of the conversation and so different things have come up, like,

Tim Seims:

If we're gonna do this can we do solar on sidewall, different things like that, that people

Tim Seims:

So I think that it's a good timing for it.

Tim Seims:

There are other pieces that come into consideration for the building

Tim Seims:

Can it go like mostly off grid can other things that can happen to make these more resilient?

Tim Seims:

And then of course the insurance companies love that sort of stuff too.

Tim Seims:

So I think there's there a bunch of moving parts.

Tim Seims:

It's very exciting because it's gone from being retrofit type conversation to new

Todd Miller:

Yeah, it's very interesting.

Todd Miller:

So this morning, the Dayton daily news, which is our local big city newspaper

Todd Miller:

They were saying as soon as June for folks who are not on some sort of contracted rate they could see

Todd Miller:

So.

Tim Seims:

Probably see apparel purchases go up because people are gonna a friend of ours.

Tim Seims:

She her and her husband keep the house at 55.

Tim Seims:

And they're very diligent over the years about that.

Tim Seims:

We always thought it was hilarious.

Tim Seims:

You'd walk in the house.

Tim Seims:

They would give us a blanket.

Tim Seims:

We're gonna hang out and visit and have drinks.

Tim Seims:

And we're like, okay, it's freezing in here.

Tim Seims:

Me may see, have to see more people do that because you have to get the energy from

Tim Seims:

So I just said, there's a lot to consider in terms of supply and demand.

Tim Seims:

They're gonna get some of it from raising prices.

Tim Seims:

So people, are watching their checkbooks more and then they're going

Todd Miller:

Yeah.

Todd Miller:

Interesting.

Todd Miller:

And I lived through the 1970s energy crisis that thermostat.

Todd Miller:

Winter was down at 55 at night and no higher than 62 during the day.

Todd Miller:

And you adapted

Tim Seims:

And there was a lot of energy not nearly as much as should have been

Tim Seims:

And energy supply at that point.

Tim Seims:

And whether it was old school or nuclear or whatever, there was a

Tim Seims:

And then you, when times like this happen you tend to see more investment innovation

Todd Miller:

So another area where you're respected and people often go to you is something

Todd Miller:

I looked it up and kind understood it, but tell us what mass timber is.

Todd Miller:

I can't be the only one.

Todd Miller:

Who's not familiar with it.

Tim Seims:

You're not, it really is.

Tim Seims:

It's much more prolific or prevalent, I should say.

Tim Seims:

In Europe and parts of Asia.

Tim Seims:

Even in Brazil, there are some sizable mass timber projects, more in Canada.

Tim Seims:

And now in the us, you usually see that progress that way, like Northern Europe

Tim Seims:

And so you could look back 20 or 30 years, you could see that's where kind

Tim Seims:

A glue beam looks like solid on lumber, but it's laid up pieces of basically two by

Tim Seims:

And it's laid up in finger joint in layers, and it just makes for a much stronger stable beam

Tim Seims:

And they're very readily available.

Tim Seims:

There were some catalysts that brought that about you had in the fifties, you resin.

Tim Seims:

Innovation that basically made a, we, a weather resistant, a water resistant resident.

Tim Seims:

So that, that these beams that are out weather during construction, that they didn't fall apart.

Tim Seims:

You had basically span tables, universal span tables.

Tim Seims:

So anyone at a lumber Cilla glue land beam.

Tim Seims:

And then you had basically that, that, that matriculated outta Europe, into the United States,

Tim Seims:

So it's you see the progression.

Tim Seims:

Okay.

Tim Seims:

So everyone's familiar with those glam beams.

Tim Seims:

And so let's take thatam beam.

Tim Seims:

That's a vertical rectangle.

Tim Seims:

When you look at it from an end view and then just turn it on the.

Tim Seims:

If you turn on side and then you imagine these panels that are maybe eight to 12 feet wide,

Tim Seims:

They're just solid lumber.

Tim Seims:

I say solid.

Tim Seims:

It's laid up like a glue, a it's one layer of two by six or two by four is going one direction for

Tim Seims:

And then and then wood that's going oriented.

Tim Seims:

The opposite direction is alternating that way.

Tim Seims:

And there are other ones like Dow laminated, nail laminated, timber.

Tim Seims:

So these are diff all under the mass timber and technically the glue lamp beams that we're all

Tim Seims:

So we're just saying, like taking that small profile of a beam and making it

Tim Seims:

You can see an example of a simplification of this with chase banks.

Tim Seims:

So about a third of all new chase banks going in for the retail walk-in

Tim Seims:

What is it?

Tim Seims:

It's a four foot wide by 60 feet or 40 foot long by six inch deep.

Tim Seims:

Beam, but it's turned instead of bean vertical, it's turned on its edge for a sloped roof

Tim Seims:

And then you have this just beautiful wood grain.

Tim Seims:

When you look up you're in the bank and you're kinda like anxious about what's your balances

Tim Seims:

And if you've ever been in an Allwood building, you just very calming.

Tim Seims:

But the other part of it that's great is cement often, that's what it's displacing.

Tim Seims:

Especially in commercial construction.

Tim Seims:

For the floors and the walls and the roof, it, they uses a lot of,

Tim Seims:

It's a major carbon footprint issue.

Tim Seims:

Cement is okay.

Tim Seims:

It's odd, durable.

Tim Seims:

Great.

Tim Seims:

But it's a problem.

Tim Seims:

Whereas trees before they're milled, before the harvested milled, they take in carbon dioxide.

Tim Seims:

We all know that from school they take in carbon dioxide, that're out in the

Tim Seims:

So it's basically, they call it sequestered in that wood.

Tim Seims:

You harvest that wood, you saw it, you put it a building, you now you have a new tree growing.

Tim Seims:

That's gonna do the same thing as opposed to concrete and cement that

Tim Seims:

Cement carpet and tile are three of the worst for carbon footprint and building materials.

Tim Seims:

So we're two of those items are very Grounded in high kiln fired products.

Tim Seims:

So you're taking that all off the table and you're at, you're doing it in a wood.

Tim Seims:

So it's a double win because you're taking cement off the table and you're taking

Tim Seims:

And so that's why you see it becoming more and more prevalent from ESG standpoint.

Tim Seims:

It's beautiful.

Tim Seims:

People love it.

Tim Seims:

It's very, spany compared to concrete construction.

Tim Seims:

We see those costs coming down over time, but eventually in order for it to become really

Tim Seims:

That's how everything needs to go to single family residential before it can be really

Tim Seims:

So it's already starting to happen a little bit in Europe.

Tim Seims:

But it's gonna be several years before we see a lot of it in single family here,

Tim Seims:

Is this displacing my product?

Tim Seims:

How can I make something that would help this product?

Tim Seims:

How can I work on connectors or connections or design elements, or

Tim Seims:

Is there some way that I can augment that for the project, with my product so that

Todd Miller:

Wow.

Todd Miller:

Very well, thank you very much for that explanation makes makes sense to me now

Tim Seims:

I hope that helped

Todd Miller:

to look for it.

Tim Seims:

or didn't make it more complicated.

Todd Miller:

Nope.

Todd Miller:

Nope.

Todd Miller:

Helped great deal.

Todd Miller:

Thank you.

Todd Miller:

A lot of our audience members, we find our younger folks getting

Todd Miller:

And what we like to do is keep them on the cutting edge, bring them new information.

Todd Miller:

Any advice for them as far as things or people they should be paying attention to, or maybe

Tim Seims:

Yeah, there to me, there three entrance points that are pretty big and they're there's

Tim Seims:

And there's the counter salesperson at a lumberyard.

Tim Seims:

I see that as a kind of a pivotal and key role in the building industry.

Tim Seims:

There is the.

Tim Seims:

The initial kind of job at a lot of building product manufacturers is

Tim Seims:

Or they're calling on lumber yards before they start talking to

Tim Seims:

And then there's the entrant into the builder space.

Tim Seims:

They're starting out as maybe project engineer, or if they didn't go to college for any specific

Tim Seims:

And they're looking at what's my, what am I doing here?

Tim Seims:

And I think that.

Tim Seims:

A couple things that helped me when I first started in the industry.

Tim Seims:

One thing that helped me a lot was pro sales magazine and the articles that, that John and

Tim Seims:

And then understanding, really understanding the building product channel, books, like what Mark

Tim Seims:

Those are always good.

Tim Seims:

But one, one thing I think that is, is interesting and probably has legs that a lot of

Tim Seims:

I'll give you an example.

Tim Seims:

I went to, this is probably 10 years ago.

Tim Seims:

I was at Ginsler office in San Francisco and it was a big presentation.

Tim Seims:

It was like the biggest CEU presentation I'd ever done.

Tim Seims:

And I walk into one of the little offices and there are a bunch of Legos and there's

Tim Seims:

And.

Tim Seims:

That's that hasn't changed, so this is a very cool thing for manufacturers and the

Tim Seims:

Why don't lumber, billing, product manufacturers have those like rooms in their places

Tim Seims:

And then you see the other end of the spectrum where you have Lego and Ikea actually

Tim Seims:

Ikea did a.

Tim Seims:

Modular joint venture to provide housing where they basically have built F they

Tim Seims:

So you start to see this, okay, here's the younger group, here's some of the technology that

Tim Seims:

Those are not nothing.

Tim Seims:

Those should definitely be on the radar.

Tim Seims:

And then you have a people in the industry.

Tim Seims:

Then you have the, these sort of a legacy companies getting involved in construction.

Tim Seims:

Lego probably should have been doing that 30 years ago, but now they're starting to be like,

Tim Seims:

And help young people get more involved in this space.

Tim Seims:

And none of these people are talking to each other right now, but the hub of that could be.

Tim Seims:

The building materials, the big MBMS and the building product manufacturers.

Tim Seims:

And then what makes that even more interesting is some of these big SAS company acquisitions

Tim Seims:

So they could really attract more young people by highlighting those things and

Tim Seims:

Should we have someone that understands tokenization of building materials and

Tim Seims:

Two actual buildings and physical products and what that really means.

Tim Seims:

And there's more and more investment into this space than anything of the, the

Tim Seims:

So why not make that easier to make that connection and how, what that means to the

Tim Seims:

I could drive by one day and show my kids.

Todd Miller:

of our.

Todd Miller:

S was Travis FOS with helm group hel mechanical and Travis was hired by their company simply to go

Todd Miller:

And certainly as a part of that, they're gonna be more attractive to

Todd Miller:

Good stuff.

Tim Seims:

You look around a job site.

Tim Seims:

If you're a young person coming outta school or you're just like goofing off on

Tim Seims:

I remember seeing that on social media or on, that looks something I saw when I had my AR

Tim Seims:

They're just gonna keep driving.

Tim Seims:

But if say they see something that correlates to something they've seen digital.

Tim Seims:

Then that, that starts to make a connection.

Tim Seims:

And when you have people dedicated, like you were just describing to, to the tech piece of

Todd Miller:

has been fantastic.

Todd Miller:

We're really getting close to the end of our time here and I appreciate all of your time, Tim.

Todd Miller:

Before we close, I do wanna ask you if you'd be willing to participate

Todd Miller:

So this is seven questions.

Todd Miller:

Some may be a little silly, some are more serious.

Todd Miller:

All you gotta do is give us a quick answer.

Tim Seims:

You got it.

Todd Miller:

Fantastic.

Tim Seims:

Here we go.

Todd Miller:

we

Seth Heckaman:

would it.

Tim Seims:

I think I would trade places with.

Tim Seims:

Whoever's at the head of Lego.

Tim Seims:

And then I would just move way faster on getting involved in

Todd Miller:

That is fascinating.

Todd Miller:

Good stuff.

Todd Miller:

Question number two, your favorite meal.

Todd Miller:

Good answer.

Todd Miller:

Neat

Tim Seims:

Favorite meal is we live in Mexico now and I love tacos.

Tim Seims:

But one of my favorite meals, there is a, is a big Italian dish.

Tim Seims:

I wouldn't even remember the name of it.

Tim Seims:

My wife always orders it and and they nail it like it is so good.

Tim Seims:

And it has this big, this beautiful bona sauce.

Tim Seims:

And then this bread is so addictive.

Tim Seims:

I can only allow them to deliver one piece because I'll eat a whole loaf myself.

Tim Seims:

Yeah.

Tim Seims:

And, I think the key to that is that whenever you're eating with people

Todd Miller:

Ha

Seth Heckaman:

Number three.

Seth Heckaman:

Do you play a musical instrument?

Tim Seims:

I tried to learn guitar.

Tim Seims:

I like to ad lib with piano and harmonica, but my main instrument, it whether it's painful to

Todd Miller:

good stuff.

Todd Miller:

What is one of your best childhood memories?

Todd Miller:

Okay.

Tim Seims:

always camping.

Tim Seims:

So we, yeah, we didn't like a lot of people you didn't grow up with much, but we didn't

Tim Seims:

And so camping was huge.

Tim Seims:

And then my dad would always bring me to this place in Bellingham,

Tim Seims:

I'd give my mom a break.

Tim Seims:

And we went to a place called hardware sales in Bellingham and just

Tim Seims:

So I gave you two there.

Seth Heckaman:

ever been told you look like someone famous?

Seth Heckaman:

And if so, who.

Tim Seims:

I usually get either Jack Black or Jack Johnson,

Seth Heckaman:

Okay.

Seth Heckaman:

I see it a little

Todd Miller:

I can see that.

Todd Miller:

I can see that good stuff.

Todd Miller:

Bucket list vacation.

Todd Miller:

We

Tim Seims:

Iceland.

Tim Seims:

We've already been there.

Tim Seims:

So I guess so since we've already been there I would have to say now,

Tim Seims:

There's I forget what's called it a train you can take that goes to a bunch of the distilleries

Tim Seims:

I've only heard tell of this from friends that have gone and I'd love to do that,

Todd Miller:

have some friends, they were in Scotland, to go stag

Todd Miller:

I'm pretty sure they were scotch hunting

Tim Seims:

right.

Tim Seims:

exactly.

Seth Heckaman:

and they were very successful

Todd Miller:

Yeah.

Todd Miller:

They were very successful.

Tim Seims:

going.

Seth Heckaman:

All right.

Seth Heckaman:

Last rapid fire question.

Seth Heckaman:

Who is the friend in your life that you have had the longest.

Tim Seims:

Probably my friends Rob and Amber in Bellingham.

Tim Seims:

They're just like, we treasure people like that because they're so supportive,

Tim Seims:

And they're just always there.

Todd Miller:

Oh, good stuff.

Todd Miller:

Thank you again, been a real pleasure and enjoyed this a great deal.

Todd Miller:

Been very informative.

Todd Miller:

Is there anything we haven't covered today that you are hoping to cover?

Tim Seims:

One thing that I think we should talk about more or should be talked

Tim Seims:

And I really feel like that.

Tim Seims:

And and along with that, little labor shortage.

Tim Seims:

Bringing that perspective into industry super important and connected to that is, we have

Tim Seims:

Should manufacturers be translating their materials into Ukrainian or Russian more

Tim Seims:

And then there's a huge amount of folks on tribal lands that want to work,

Tim Seims:

And I like a factory or a mill or something like that.

Tim Seims:

There's a lot of untapped resource there.

Tim Seims:

So those are all related to.

Todd Miller:

Those are all great topics though.

Todd Miller:

Yeah.

Todd Miller:

Fantastic.

Todd Miller:

We'll have to keep those in.

Todd Miller:

Or future episodes too.

Todd Miller:

Thank you again so much.

Todd Miller:

Tim, if folks wanna get in touch with you, how can they most easily do that?

Tim Seims:

Most folks just send me a note on LinkedIn and I try to

Tim Seims:

And or they can text or call me at (425) 492-0973.

Tim Seims:

I get a lot of people just texting me out of the blue.

Tim Seims:

So I'm happy to respond on those and connect and help way I can.

Todd Miller:

Great.

Todd Miller:

Thank you.

Todd Miller:

And just as a mention for everybody of course we'll have this in the show notes, but Tim's

Tim Seims:

Why should why would we want it to be simple, right?

Todd Miller:

That's right.

Todd Miller:

And you gotta ha you gotta love the rhyming of Tim Sims.

Todd Miller:

That's fantastic.

Todd Miller:

Good stuff.

Todd Miller:

Thank you again so much for your time today, Tim.

Todd Miller:

This has been a great pleasure.

Tim Seims:

Thank you for having me.

Tim Seims:

I really appreciate the invitation.

Tim Seims:

And for all you're doing to make this industry, I love better.

Todd Miller:

And thank you to our audience for tuning into this episode of construction

Todd Miller:

Please watch for future episodes of our podcast.

Todd Miller:

We have more great guests coming up and don't forget to leave a

Todd Miller:

Until the next time change the world for someone, make them smile, encourage them very powerful

Todd Miller:

God bless take care.

Todd Miller:

This is Isaiah industry signing off until the next episode of Construction Disruption