Episode 32

Career Advice from the Construction Coach with Elinor Moshe

Our guest Elinor Moshe is Australia’s Construction Coach, guiding and mentoring industry professionals to discover the life they want. After feeling stuck in her career, she felt that she had lived for others and chosen her life’s path without the careful thought that it deserved. So, she vowed to change her direction and started a new career in helping others define their goals. Now a published author of Constructing Your Career and Leadership in Construction, Elinor has reached people in all stages of their careers. She wants to spread her message of introspection and fulfilling life to all who would hear it.

 

Reach out to Elinor on LinkedIn, listen on Clubhouse @ElinorMoshe_, check out her website, or catch her podcast Constructing You.

 

Episodes are sponsored and produced by Isaiah industries, a manufacturer of specialty metal roofing systems and other building materials. Learn more at isaiahindustries.com



This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:

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Transcript

Elinor Moshe:

:

When people promise, I'll show you how to unravel your potential. But they themselves don't even have vision, they don't even have dreams, they don't even have aspirations, they do nothing out of the regular cookie-cutter career. Then what we have is a situation of the blind leading the blind. And they can only take you so far.

Todd Miller:

:

Welcome to the Construction Disruption podcast, where we uncover the future of building and remodeling. I'm Todd Miller of Isaiah Industries, a manufacturer of specialty metal roofing and other building materials. And with me today is my grandson, Seth Heckaman. OK, now I will allow you. He is not my grandson. This is our vice president of sales, Seth Heckaman. I'll allow you the great pleasure of explaining why I introduce you as my grandson.

Seth Heckaman:

:

Well, it's been a few years since we've gotten this, but we had a visitor in the office today and we were all talking, and he asked how long I'd been here and asked if I was born into it as your grandson or some other family member. Which, I took it as a compliment that he thought I was a whole generation younger than what I actually am.

Todd Miller:

:

But not that I wouldn't be very proud to have you as my grandson, but my actual son is seven years younger than you. So anyway, it's all good. That was fun. Anyway, so our goal here at Construction Disruption is to provide forward-lookinginformation that is helpful to those who are serious about this industry for their careers. As part of that, we look at new innovations as well as trends in construction, building materials, the labor market, and leadership. Basically, if it's something out there that we believe is going to impact the future of building and remodeling, we go out and find a leading expert on that topic and invite them on to the show as our spotlighted guest. And today, that guest is Elinor Moshe. Living in Melbourne, Australia, Elinor is founder of the Construction Coach, where she guides and inspires construction professionals and future leaders to construct their careers and achieve higher compensation, faster progression, and more recognition. By starting with the question, Are you ready to start constructing you? Elinor helps her clients take quantum leaps in their careers. Elinor holds a master of Construction Management and a Bachelor of Environments from the University of Melbourne, and she is a frequent speaker and guest lecturer. Her book Constructing Your Career and her other book Leadership in Construction, and also her podcast, is very busy. Her podcast is called Constructing You. All of those things are changing lives, and I believe helping to drive push our industry forward. Elinor, welcome to Construction Disruption, and thank you so much for your time today. I know with the time difference we had to ask you to record it very early on a Saturday morning, so thank you for your time.

Elinor Moshe:

:

Good morning and my pleasure and privilege to be on the other side of the microphone. You both doing the heavy lifting in the AM hours. I get the privilege of being in conversation, so thank you.

Todd Miller:

:

Well, I was going to say this is you are what we call old hat to this doing a lot of recording and podcasting yourself. So I have to ask you. Oh, and I don't know. Maybe this is a dangerous question. Do you often see penguins on the coast around Melbourne?

Elinor Moshe:

:

And in the whole time that I've been here, I've seen those cute little things once you go to a specific location and find them, and that is Phillip Island. So I think people do think that we have nature and not nature, but the animals just roaming around in suburbia. But alas, no. Probably for the better for them, not for us. So I would definitely recommend a visit Down Under and to discover all that we have here.

Todd Miller:

:

It's a beautiful place. It has a doggone long flight and it's a beautiful place. So the reason for my question is I have to tell you, I've been to Australia once and spent most of that time in Melbourne and also in the Geelong and Anglesea areas. And I think it was when we were down at Geelong. We are driving along. I wasn't driving, my host was. We're driving along the coast, though, and he's showing me the sights and I look out and out on the rocks and this is again near Geelong. There's a penguin standing out there on the rocks, and I told him, I said, Do you have a lot of penguins because there's a penguin out there? And of course, he absolutely refused to believe me, but he did circle back and go back. And by golly, there was a penguin there sitting out, standing out there. And so in parts of Australia, I am known as the bloke who saw Penguin in Geelong. So anyway, it was that was pretty cool, though

Elinor Moshe:

:

I was in Geelong a few months ago, I don't remember seeing a sign that says Todd saw a, Todd saw a penguin, I'll have to keep my eyes open next time.

Todd Miller:

:

I need to lobby for that. That would be pretty awesome, actually. I'm sure my host knows exactly where it was that I spotted the lone and rather confused-lookingpenguin, to be honest. Well, again, thank you so much for taking some time with us today. So you are a widely recognized thought leader and also authority in the construction management field, and you've chosen to use your skills and experiences to help others, which is fantastic. We always prefer here on Construction Disruption to have folks tell their own stories rather than just read some dry biography I pulled from a website or LinkedIn. So can you tell us a little bit about your own career path, including what caused you to become interested in construction as a career? And then also how you came to be the Construction Coach?

Elinor Moshe:

:

Thank you, great question. Throughout my undergraduate, I did architecture and I had the grandiose idea that I would be the person showing up in all black to a site or a building. I would have my name up in lights and how disillusioned of course I was when that vision met reality or something like that. And whilst I am creative, I'm not creative in that typical sense, I was a student who came to class with the glue still wet on the model, and the thing that got me through was that I have a fantastic way with words. That was what got me that piece of paper. But architecture certainly wasn't for me, and I realized through actually the extracurricularactivities during my undergraduate, which I spent more time doing, that I'm naturally gravitating towards things that are process orientated and structured and more holistic than what I perceived architecture to be. So based on the knowledge that I had at the time, I looked at the prospectus and said, OK, I don't want to do property. I don't want to do urban planning. I definitely don't want to do architecture. So I looked into construction and it all sounded fantastic. And I remember sitting there in the first class way back in 2013 thinking, this is everything that I was looking for, but it just afforded so many more questions and a lot more opportunity, I thought, starting at the outset of the industry. So then I did find myself working in the construction industry. But year six to seven, I started feeling extremely stifled, extremely lost, and extremely dissatisfied. And this was through having a quote-unquotewhat other people would perceive an unsuccessful career. Many people would have happily traded places with me, but I got to a point where I hated my career, and to say that versus what I do now is to show the depths as to where I found my career. I was diminished. I lost ninety-fivepercent of my individuality and my personality to conformity within the industry, and I couldn't makes sense as to where I was going. It didn't make sense to be chasing a quote-unquotea job title when it no had anything to do with where I wanted to go? And this friction started developing when I conceived my own vision and where I thought I wanted to go, which was based on societal standards and conventional industry practices, had nothing to do with my vision. And that's what started affording me the cracks in my paradigm to say that something isn't right here and I wasn't in charge of my career at the time, and it was a gray, bleak Melbourne morning in October. As bleak as Melbourne morning gets. And I was working on this horrible project, which was toxic and seeping into every crevice of my life, and I looked at the site shed and it had bars in it, and it felt like a mental prison for me. And I looked at it and I said, This can't be it. And it was that morning that I made the promise to myself that I am going to take charge of my career and I will do everything that I can in my power to make my vision come to fruition. And that's how I got to where I am today, the short of it. But what happens when you do pursue a vision with enough precision and when you have enough belief in it, the right people and the right opportunities start to come around you. And the first thing that I had to do was to lead myself. I had to construct me before I even had the right to give any sort of advice to insight or insight to other people within the industry. And that's what I spent more time doing. And I still do it. You can only lead someone from a higher consciousness than they are on. But I had to solve career problems for myself first and once I solved it for myself, once I got a broader perspective as to how stiftling it actually is to come up through the ranks of construction that I realized, Look, if I have this problem, then others as well. Because if I was working with outdated tools and I was leaving opportunity on the table, then so were other people and if I wasn't constructing my career with the knowledge of one of the most influential factors, then other people weren't as well. And I realized that there is a chasm between what the construction industry tells you that you need to construct your career. This is what is actually required, and that's the driving force between everything that I do today.

Todd Miller:

:

Wow, that is quite a story. I mean, and how much more effective that has to make you as a coach because you're basically coaching people through what you went through yourself? And I assume that's kind of where you're seeing that transformation in your own life. I would assume, is what kind of led you to have this burning desire to go out and help others through that same process. Is that true?

Elinor Moshe:

:

That's right. And what you will see frequently in the coaching and mentoring marketplace is irony that people promising you outcomes that they haven't even resolved for themselves. And whether it's coaches, mentors, vice presidents, you know, company founders, people want to see that the leader, the individual themselves can generate success for themselves in the first place. You can't promise something to someone else that you haven't achieved for yourself. That's called being a phony. And when people, you know, promise, I'll show you how to unravel your potential. But they themselves don't even have vision. They don't even have dreams. They don't even have aspirations. They do nothing out of the regular cookie-cutter career. Then what we have is a situation of the blind leading the blind, and they can only take you so far. So certainly being able to solve problems for yourself and recognizing that is the only way that you were able to then recognize and lead someone else to that same problem. And then that solution.

Todd Miller:

:

Wow and that resonates with me because years ago I had worked with a business coach and God rest his soul. He's since passed away and he was a great guy and we became great friends. But he struggled in that role as a coach because prior to becoming a business coach, he had worked for billion-dollarmultinational companies. He had never really lived that experience of being an entrepreneur, of bootstrapping, of figuring out, you know, I have a customer now, what do I do with this? And so he struggled with that. Now he had some great resources and ultimately he helped did a lot of things to help me and many other clients, but that just really resonates with me so much what you're saying because if you are a coach and you've actually lived it yourself, that certainly makes a big difference.

Seth Heckaman:

:

So I'm curious, you had that inciting incident, that bleak morning, Melbourne morning. What did the what did you do the afternoon or the days ahead? What were the next steps after that for you living into that new vision for yourself?

Elinor Moshe:

:

That's a great question. First, I had anxiety like it felt like a breakdown like you don't know what's happening because it's called a paradigm shift. But I didn't have that terminology at the time. But actually, that's a great question. The first thing that I did was call my then mentor, and that mentoring relationship expired for all the right reasons and I called him. I didn't have the words to articulate the frustration between I don't like where I am, but I also don't have the words to express what I want to be doing. And I called my then mentor, and within so many words, I tried to express the deep unsatisfaction. And I remember him starkly saying, Well, if that's what you want, then you should just go be an entrepreneur tomorrow. And it was in such a mocking way as if the world of entrepreneurship would be out of reach for me, and I was being selfish to want to live in alignment with my number one value, which is freedom and not wanting to quote-unquotedo the hard yards. And I do a lot of hard yards now, right? But it doesn't have to look like one thing of working on site. And, you know, working with inadequate management, that's not a career in construction. That is one version of what it means to have a career in construction. And because at that point in time, I did think that, OK, this mentor does know what's best. I let it go for around a few days, but it kept on coming back to me with such a nagging feeling that, no, there is something in this for me. And fast forward a little bit. That's when I conceive the idea for the Construction Coach. And I was hesitant to share it with that mentor because I knew they would discount it and I was right. And that's why that mentoring relationship had to end because they were not the right mentor who could serve me anymore. And that's why I had to, you know, that mentoring relationship had to end as difficult as it was for the mentor that I do have right now is larger than life. And that is Ron Malhotra to show me that there is a marriage between construction and there is a marriage between the life and lifestyle that I desire for myself. And just because it hasn't been done before doesn't mean that it can't be done before. And that's how quick people are to discount your dreams. And that was an important lesson to learn as a mentor early on that when people think that they mentor what they're actually wanting to do is fit you into their predetermined plans and their predetermined notions as to what you should be. Instead of looking at you as a whole and saying, OK, this is who you are, this is what you want. How can I make that happen for you and enable you to do that? And that is the difference between average mentoring and exemplary transformative mentoring, of course, which the construction industry so is so desperate for. So it was, you know, what happened straight after is a lot of confusion, a lot of friction, and not a lot of clarity. Clarity came maybe even a year after that. It took time. But what I didn't do was give up on that dream and say, You know what? That is a pipeline dream, and I should just sit down and shut up like everyone else and follow the set conventional path, which has already been paved like someone else. I'm not. I don't have that mentality. I cannot follow the crowd. It doesn't work for me. So in order to break away, it takes a lot of courage in the first instance as well.

Seth Heckaman:

:

Fantastic. How all the more inspiring that story is and your example then coming alongside your mentees where you've had that success for yourself and it was all based upon trusting your own intuition and deepest passions in the process. So having that at having that moment, but bracing for a whole lot more conflict and wrestling afterwards.

Todd Miller:

:

And I have to say too, so Seth is a musician. I can see this line bleak Melbourne morning showing up in a song someday, and there's something incredible about that.

Elinor Moshe:

:

All yours.

Todd Miller:

:

So I'm curious. Tell us a little bit about what your relationship with your clients typically looks like. Who is typical of your clients? What does that relationship entail?

Elinor Moshe:

:

In the thought leadership world? What's more important is someone's psychographics than demographics.

Todd Miller:

:

Sure.

Elinor Moshe:

:

And what's more important is that they have ambition and they have desire and they want more because fundamentally, the only people who seek out a mentor or a coach are people who want more out of life. Someone who is satisfied with doing the same thing over and over and over again is not going to seek out a mentor or a coach to enable them to do more to explore more. They are not the type of people who don't have curiosity. Right? So it is only a certain type of person who not only seeks out mentoring and coaching, but one that would even come into my world because I have high standards. My minimum standard is excellence. I don't put up with bad behavior. It's also about having ambition, I speak the language of ambition and achievement, there's a certain hunger in me to win. And most people would call that arrogance. Some people call it confidence. Either way, it's none of my business. I'm here to do what I need to do for my clients. So the people that do come into my world, they are certainly action takers. They're not people who will sit on the sidelines for five years to make a decision. They are not people who have a sense of entitlement, meaning hang on, I have a problem there for the whole world should bow down at my feet and solve it for me. And that is how most people do approach their career problems, their personal problems, their life problems. And you can see by the results that people have later on in their life how deep that sense of entitlement is. So through psychographics, those are fundamentally the type of people who would come into my world. And my approach is it's from the inside out, not from the outside. And most people ask you the question, So what do you want to be? And then they expect the answer to be a job title. They'll simply plot out a pathway based on, OK, this is your job title now. Okay? You need an interviewing skill and this is the next job you're going to get. And that might provide short-termpain relief. It's like putting soothing cream on a broken leg, but it doesn't fix the problem that people are experiencing in their career. So I work with people at different levels, everything from everyone, from people who are trying to get into the industry right through to business advisory. All the same. And it's at every level. It's about enabling them to stop being invisible to the marketplace, even if they are in a managerial role and they want to establish themselves as a leader. They're an executive and they want to go down the thought leadership path if they are a graduate seeking opportunity in the marketplace. It's about providing them with opportunities for differentiation. But first and foremost, doing the quote-unquotethe inner work. Everything starts with us. And one thing that we don't do is give people the tactical approach, right? So for example, if it's someone who wants to, you know, get themselves a pay rise, you can't just give them a script. There's a lot of mindset work that needs to happen in the first place so that they don't just achieve a pay rise, but that they also expand their bandwidth for income for abundance so that they understand how can I influence my income to get them thinking in ways that are not just okay? Income means a pay rise. It's getting them to actually think differently about the whole concept of income. So I hope that it provides a perspective to the question.

Todd Miller:

:

No, it does. And I loved what you said that, you know, it's not about demographics, it's about the drive in that individual. And you know, that is something we talk a lot about, too in regards to some of the clients that we work with even as a building products manufacturer. So is a lot of your coaching done over the phone or video conferencing? Is that typically what that looks like?

Elinor Moshe:

:

Or yes, it's all online. And it was only, I think a month ago, a few weeks ago that I got to meet some of my clients in person for the first time because Melbourne has been the most lockdown imprisoned state that there is. So there really hasn't been opportunity in 2021. We just every time we wanted to meet or have a client get together, it had to be canceled. So that was just canned. It is all online. And that, of course, does afford opportunities to have clients across multiple continents. And I was thinking that even right now, I can travel to every state in Australia and there is a client that I can see, and that is such a fulfilling thing to, you know, think that I have done for myself, especially when everyone said, Well, this isn't possible.

Todd Miller:

:

So I'm curious as the Construction Coach or in this these relationships, do you find that you yourself grow as well and learn? And I'm curious to hear a little bit about that from your perspective.

Elinor Moshe:

:

Of course. Well, I have to. And it's not even that I have to like that is my duty, because it's the more that I expand my worldview, the more that I expand my own consciousness, the more that I can serve them. Because, you know, as I said before, if clients are on this level and that's not saying it's of a bad thing, I mean, I once you know, down there somewhere, then and if I'm on the same level as them, then I can only take them so far and that's not what they come to me for. So the more that I expand, the more that I do what I tell them to do, the more that I follow my own curiosity is then the more that I can, of course, serve them in the process as well. And absolutely, I mean, when you truly listen to not just what they think the problem is because we're not the best people to diagnose our own problems. It's like, you know, me going to the doctor and saying, Well, I have a headache. And then they just give me what I need for that, whereas that's not actually the process. That's not actually the right diagnostic. So listening to not just what clients say, but what also they don't say and knowing that and always highlighting their blind spots to them. Of course, I learned from that process as well, because you're truly understanding the person as a whole. You know what's important to them? What do they value? What don't they value? What do they? What keeps them up at night? What do they dream about? What do they truly want for themselves? And the only way that I can learn that is from them. So every time I have a new client on working with someone new, it's an incredible opportunity to learn about them because there is no one size fits all. Everyone is different. And that's also how I approach the mentoring. It's that if this person has this disposition and this set of strings, what is it that will enable them to achieve their dreams? So. Absolutely. Like, I learned the most from them, which then of course, increases my ability to serve more people of, you know, you have those who have those same problems for saying those same similar aspirations and similar dreams. And we all tend to think that our problems are the only one in the world who has them? But there are people who, you know, show share similar frustrations.

Todd Miller:

:

Very interesting. And you know, as I sit here and listen to you and I think back to where you said, you know, you had started in undergrad in architecture and decided that wasn't for you. And I was reminded a few episodes ago we had an architect on and he said, Oh, an architect is just someone who dresses in black and wears funky glasses. But as I listen to you, it seems like you really should have been a psychology major. I mean it just seems like that that is very much your bent is really tuning in well to people and helping them discover themselves. And that's pretty incredible. So I'm curious, are most of your clients entrepreneurs? I mean, are they the owner of the business or do you work with a lot of clients who are, as you mentioned earlier, a manager or project manager or whatever that might be?

Elinor Moshe:

:

Predominantly industry professionals or those wanting to get into industry or those who are quite senior in industry. And they usually come to me around truly the seven-yearmark, which is where you experience the most disillusionment with simply having a one-dimensionalcorporate career and you've forgotten those dreams that you started off with in the industry. And it's usually at that point where people don't even recognize themselves anymore. They look and sound like everyone else in the construction industry. Chinos, R.M. Williams, a checkered shirt and a puffered vest. And so it's that sort of, you know, it's when, again, they've lost so much of themselves that they don't even recognize themselves anymore. And then, of course, I do have a collaboration with my business, with my mentor for business advisory, and that is where we do service the business owners and entrepreneurs. And also I do work with my business, with my mentor and business partner. And that is also for those who may have left corporate already and they're starting out or they are already, you know, they might have a successful business, but now they're also looking at how they can position themselves as sole leaders or as the go-toindustry experts in their own micro-niche.

Seth Heckaman:

:

I'm curious when you're working with those leaders of organizations, you know, whether departments or the organizations as a whole, how do you help them lead well enough where they're not creating all these dissatisfied people at year seven underneath them? You know, how does their, do you help their leadership change? How do you help them set a better vision for their own team members that they're responsible for?

Elinor Moshe:

:

That's a great question. It all again starts with the individual, and if the individual doesn't know how to lead themselves, so they're not going to be able to enable others to also lead themselves and set other people up for success. If they can't recognize within themselves what they want, then how are they possibly going to enable someone else or recognize or enable someone else to recognize what it is that they want? And when they start seeing, you know what it is, I am more powerful and more impactful. But when I am all of who I am, then they, of course, start to create space and enable others to bring more of that person and more of their personality to work. So that's a shift on one front. And when a person is visually a leader, when they are in total alignment with themselves, when you can see that you know, this person knows who they are and they operate on a higher vibration, a high level of consciousness that, of course, does work to raise others around them. You can imagine if someone was working with a manager and they were, you know, simply toxic in every way, shape, and form. Well, that doesn't create any benefit to their subordinates. But imagine if they had a leader that was so confident within themselves that they would, you know, they create space for others, they create pathways for other people. Well, that of course, has benefits, but also when people are instilling higher standards, right? People don't even hold themselves to high standards. I mean, no one wakes up in the morning and says Todd, you have to hold yourself to high standards. That has to come from within unless someone does. But if that doesn't come from within, then who's doing it? And if the leader themselves isn't holding themselves to high standards then they cannot hold others. So there's a major discovery process as to what that actually is. And then that, of course, has its flow on effects to everyone who is in their world all the same.

Todd Miller:

:

So as you think about some of your clients, I'd love to hear about some success stories, and I know you have some great ones on your websitesand testimonials and little soundbites. But what are some of the primary changes that you've seen your clients you know, have occur in their lives? Any stories you can share with us about lives that were changed and success that was gained and folks that, you know, made it out of that bleak Melbourne morning? We're on to make a big saying out of that. I may have the visitors bureau for Melbourne all over me now.

Seth Heckaman:

:

They didn't give you a plaque.

Todd Miller:

:

Yeah, I don't have a plaque yet. That's right. So would love, though to hear some of those success stories, and some of those stories have changed lives now.

Elinor Moshe:

:

Some of the best stories are when they realized that construction isn't for them, that they were just following convention, that, you know, why am I even doing this? And that's truly not what they want. And then they start putting in motion. They start making plans to actually pursue what they originally wanted before everyone else but themselves told them what they wanted. And I love that, right? Because they are pursuing what it is that they wanted before their parents told them what to do before their workplace told them to sit down, shut up, and here's your next role. Right before all of that, they had their own aspirations. And you know, if a client has decided to leave construction and say, go to property when I can, when a client has, you know, created massive wins for themselves in, you know, starting their business or having the confidence to pursue the ambition so, you know, they move on. One person has moved countries for a new role. Another person has left a quote-unquotegood position, which society says is a good position. But they hated it, and they went and pursued something that was in alignment. That's a great outcome. Again, when someone says, I don't even want to work in construction, even better outcome and I want to go to, you know, teaching, it's when they also discover within themselves that they already have everything within themselves that they need to achieve it. They just don't have the knowledge, but they have the backbone and they start to realize how powerful they actually are. It's giving the agency and its giving power back to them. So there's a lot of intangible outcomes that come with the mentoring process, which is around that conviction, that confidence,and that clarity. But then, of course, the tangible outcomes when they get the job that they've always wanted or they may get the promotion that they always wanted, they get that builders license like they always wanted. So when people are fundamentally achieving what it is that they want, and even if that changes over time, that is the most rewarding feedback loop that we can get as a mentor.

Todd Miller:

:

You know, something I'm thinking about here is when we talk about getting people into the right roles and roles that are fulfilling to them. A major issue here in the States for many, several years in the construction industry has been the shortage of skilled labor. Is that similar in Australia? Is there a shortage of skilled trades and so forth?

Elinor Moshe:

:

Well, you know, we can define a skillset as being someone who simply has a qualification, but that's not a skill set. And then there is, of course, the specialized technical skillsetand that, of course, there is a that's a lagging indicator takes someone takes maybe three or four years to truly train a qualified tradesperson to be, you know, of the artisan level to some extent. But what is even more rare to find are those A players those truly ambitious, dedicated, hungry people who don't just sit around waiting to be told what to do, but they also know how to think, and they don't need to be told just what to think. And it's those who have that entrepreneurial mindset, that entrepreneurial nature of thinking rather than the employee mindset. And that is what is truly becoming harder and harder to find as people get more and more entitled. They just want, want, want. I want, I want, I want. Great, what can you actually give in the first place? And this is what's truly becoming harder to find its people with the right attitude toward success, towards progression, towards remuneration. And that is what we're truly missing in the industry. And I speak to executives frequently on my podcast as well, and that is all the same. A common pain point is that the employee is at the professional workplace isn't realizing how they all sound to their executives. I want this. I want the title. I want, I want, I want. But no one's asking, Hey, what can I do for you?

Todd Miller:

:

That's interesting. And I took kind of a back route to get there, but what I was kind of going toward was exactly that, that, you know, how much more effective and to some degree, how how much more of aneffective workforce we can have, how some of these problems go away if we simply have people that are self-fulfilled. And in the right roles and loving what they do. And all of us know that, you know, when we're doing something where we're in our zone and it's what we love doing, we are most effective also. And so I really believe what you're doing is addressing that workforce issue simply by changing lives and getting people into the right spots with the right attitudes and feeling self-fulfilled. So kudos.

Seth Heckaman:

:

But holding that tension that you just outlined of, we need to help people feel self-fulfilleddoing something they enjoy doing while understanding no one's just going to give it to you, responsible for giving it to you. So, you know, you have to give in the process. You have to contribute to the good overall and in that we can all work together where we all reach that end for ourselves.

Elinor Moshe:

:

Certainly.

Todd Miller:

:

So, many of our listeners and viewers here at Construction Disruption we believe are folks who are fairly young in their careers, in building and remodeling and design. Any particular words of advice you would have for those folks who are, you know, new in their careers, obviously they ought to think about calling you and engaging you as their coach. But any particular words of advice for them?

Elinor Moshe:

:

To go in here first and ask themselves, What do you want? And when I was asked that question way back in 2015, the only answer I had was, I want to work on-site. But then it's like, Hang on what? Every day forever is that what I really want? Or is that what the industry wants me to say? Now if I get asked the question what do you want? My answer is well, how much time do you have? Because it's a long answer, to say the least. And a very detailed and each one all the same. But ask yourself, what do you want? And whilst that may sound like a simple question. Nine out of 10 people that I ask, I don't get an answer. And this is why things such as seniority and experience have very little weight, because when you truly go behind the facade of the individual, you strip away the title, you strip away the company, you take away all the projects. There's nothing there because they haven't actually been working on the real project that matters. And that is, of course, themselves. So for those who are starting out, sit with the question of what is it that I truly want? What do I want my life to look like in 10 years from now? Because if you're not going to be the driver of that, you're going to end up waking up at 6:00 a.m. to an alarm clock to go to work with inadequate people, to go to work on inadequate projects. And no matter how much money hits your account, it will never be fulfilling.

Todd Miller:

:

Man, that's great advice to younger folks in particular. It really is. I love that. Anything that you are seeing potentially happening out there in construction, and I realize this is a little bit far-flungfrom the whole coaching aspect. But anything you're seeing out there that you think is a trend or disruptor that folks need to have on their radar?

Elinor Moshe:

:

This certainly, you know, we can look at the contech, all the proptech, there's all of those and offsite manufacturing. But the greatest opportunity is to bring the heart back into the industry for incredible heart-centric leaders who have that passion, who know that things can be done better in the industry and they want to disrupt. Disruption, and that's why I was excited to come on this podcast because disruption is the greatest opportunity that there currently is. The industry is experiencing a myriad of issues, but it's not the industry's fault. Because what is an industry? An industry is the sum of its parts. What are the parts? The parts are the people, and it's the people who from the inside out have those problems that they're not working on their mindset, they have no idea what their high skill set is. They're working again out of total alignment. They are dissatisfied day in, day out. They're just waiting for Friday, waiting for Happy Friday and happy Monday. Like, I can't stand those. Why would we celebrate days of the week instead of actually saying, you know what? It doesn't matter, because every single day I get to do what I love doing. So the biggest opportunity is that disruption, whether it's someone again wants to become a coach or a mentor themselves, or they want to start their own consultancy. They want to start a business because they know things can be done better. We don't have to play the same game as everyone else because people have been doing that, have we found ourselves in this place? And what the industry does not do really well is ever address the root cause. People love putting Band-Aid solutions over the problems in the industry and when those bandages fell off, it really hurts. You know, right now there's one of the largest companies that has gone into administration and you know, we're waiting just like the industry's on edge to see if will be another buyer because they have multimillion-dollarsites. So when we keep, you know, when the industry keeps on addressing the symptom and not the root cause, the problems keep on being perpetuated. And that is where there's the greatest opportunity in my perspective.

Todd Miller:

:

That's neat. Very good. What role have mentors played in your own life? I mean, you know, you are the coach coaching and mentoring others. But I'd love to hear a little bit about because one thing I always find is good coaches have always been with good mentors. So I'd love to hear a little bit about what role mentors have played in your life.

Elinor Moshe:

:

You're absolutely right, and I'm not saying that everyone should work with me. Of course not. I'm not for everyone. But if people are seeking the right mentor, whoever it is for them, they need to ask them one question, Who is your mentor or coach? Because if they don't have one, then they don't have the right to actually be a mentor or coach for you. They're just giving you information. They're not giving your insight, and they don't also know what it means to actually go down the mentoring experience. What that transformation could actually be like. My mentor, Ron Malhotra, is the best decision that I made in my adult life, and if it wasn't for Ron, I've no idea where I would be. I would be that struggling trying to. I don't even know. I would not have been releasing my second book within one and a half years. I would not have had any of the things that I would have had. And this isn't to say because I don't have resourcefulness. I do. But you don't even know what question to ask. And Ron is someone who I would be grateful for until the end of time that I have the privilege of learning from of being guided by. And Ron, saw me. And that is one of the most powerful things that you can do for someone else is to truly see them, not for who they are back then, but for all of who they can be. And that's what Ron did. Ron helped me like you reached out into the future and he gave it to me on a plate and said, Here this is the pathway. This is what you need to do. And I have a great student, not just a great mentor, but a great student. And I did everything that the mentor requires and I got to where I am today. And Ron is someone who is simply larger than life, and to have him as his business partner, as people in my corner is it means the world to me. It's something that isn't so easily articulated inwords how important this person is to me. But again, if I had not met Ron and if I had not rolled the dice fundamentally on myself and said yes, then it would have been a great disservice. But there are people that come into your life for a reason a season or lifetime. And Ron is one of those lifetime people that I get to have get the pleasure of experiencing in my own life.

Todd Miller:

:

Oh, that's fantastic. Great story, too. Well, this has been a real pleasure, Elinor. We're getting close to the end of our time, and I do thank you so much again for your time. Before we close out, though, I do want to ask you if you'd be willing to participate in our rapid-firequestion round.

Elinor Moshe:

:

Let's go.

Todd Miller:

:

You don't even want to hear about it. We're ready to go. These are seven questions. All you got to do is give us your first response. Everyone needs to understand, Elinor has no idea what we're about to ask her. We want to alternate every other one. Okay. I will ask you question number one, someplace that's on your bucket list to visit someday?

Elinor Moshe:

:

Italy.

Todd Miller:

:

I've been there once and, yeah, anxious to go back.

Elinor Moshe:

:

I've only been there twice. And that's not enough.

Todd Miller:

:

Any penguins? No penguins there. Even I could not find a penguin in Italy.

Seth Heckaman:

:

Question number two, if you could invent any wonderful, incredible device to make life easier, what would that device be?

Elinor Moshe:

:

Oh, that's a great question. Well, depends on the need. It depends on the problem. Like I've got my analytical mind on. I don't know. Again, it depends on their immediate needs and the problems that people have in their life. Can I come back?

Seth Heckaman:

:

Yeah, you can think about that.

Todd Miller:

:

Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Next one. Favorite traditional Australian food?

Elinor Moshe:

:

Australia doesn't have any.

Todd Miller:

:

Oh, really?

Elinor Moshe:

:

No, that's about it. So it doesn't have, you know, recognizable dishes like other cultures. I guess the only thing that comes to mind is lamington.

Todd Miller:

:

Lamington, I don't even know what this is.

Elinor Moshe:

:

OK, it's a sponge cake in chocolate with coconut on it.

Todd Miller:

:

Oh no, that does sound good. I remember oh, Tim Tams. I remember Tim Tam cookies. I think that's what they were.

Elinor Moshe:

:

Yes, they're very popular.

Todd Miller:

:

And I might remember Vegemite, too. I don't think I remember it fondly, though.

Elinor Moshe:

:

No, that's nothing to remember fondly about that, it's forgettable at best.

Seth Heckaman:

:

Number four, time of the day when you feel you are the most productive?

Elinor Moshe:

:

Midnight.

Seth Heckaman:

:

Really, interesting.

Todd Miller:

:

Wow.

Elinor Moshe:

:

I'm the night the nightest person that there is. My best ideas, my best flow is between 11 pm to 1 am. That's my prime time.

Todd Miller:

:

That is awesome. I admire that. That is not me, but I admire it. So this next one I have to give a little explanation on. There are all kinds of lists online for rapid-firequestions, icebreaker questions and so sometimes for inspiration I go to those and I saw one that I thought, OK, this is too good not to ask you say good day mate in an Australian accent.

Elinor Moshe:

:

Oh goodness, it doesn't even sound natural. I don't even speak like that. Good day mate.

Todd Miller:

:

That was perfect.

Elinor Moshe:

:

That's all you're getting.

Seth Heckaman:

:

That was great. Do you prefer the top or bottom half of the bagel?

Elinor Moshe:

:

The bagels are the when you cut it, by the way. Yes, the top half.

Todd Miller:

:

Yes, I'm a top half person too. He likes the bottom half. There's something about the top half is crispier, it's crunchier. OK, seventh question, unless we go back to that one, what is the worst piece of advice that anyone has ever given you?

Elinor Moshe:

:

How much time do you have? You should be. You should, you should, anything that starts with you should. You should be. You know, I'm a safety consultant. You should do the same. I've done a survey for you should do the same. I'm, you know, I climb the corporate ladder. You should do the same. There's no should. Like who said. So anything that starts with you should that doesn't have your best intentions at heart and that doesn't truly take in your whole person. That is advicethat is easily discarded and also simply the opinions of other people. I'm not interested in anyone's opinions. No one's entitled to their opinions. They're only entitled to their informed opinions. So anything that generally starts with what you should do, then question it.

Todd Miller:

:

Wow, and that fits so much what you're doing as a consultant and coach, and what you said your approach was, that's good stuff. Well, do you want to go back to the second question or take a pass?

Elinor Moshe:

:

I'm still in ideation mode.

Seth Heckaman:

:

We'll put it in the show notes you'll follow up later.

Elinor Moshe:

:

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I'll I will have to come back and maybe send you an email when I come up with my great inventions.

Todd Miller:

:

So, so we asked that question of someone once and they said a self-unloadingtruck. And I thought, Wow, that's pretty original. And that would be handy.

Elinor Moshe:

:

And that would certainly be handy.

Todd Miller:

:

If he's unloaded a lot of trucks or what the deal is. But. Well, thank you again, Elinor. This has been a real pleasure and a privilege to have you here on the show. Is there anything that we haven't covered today that you'd like to share with our audience?

Elinor Moshe:

:

I truly appreciate the conversation and commendations for being one of the most best prepared and organized podcasts that I have been on. Sometimes you do find you chasing for the link you're chasing for the time you're always chasing, but you have made it an absolute pleasure and a privilege to be on your show. So thank you.

Todd Miller:

:

Oh well, thank you. It's our pleasure and I know what you're saying. I've guested on a few also. Yeah, it's frustrating. If things don't, they'll go. So I've tried, tried to make sure we don't fall into. That doesn't mean we don't stub our toes sometimes, but we try not to. So for folks who might want to get in touch with you, how can they what's the best way for them to do that? I know you're all over the internet, but what's the best way for them to reach you?

Elinor Moshe:

:

I'm Elinor Moshe on LinkedIn, @ElinorMoshe_ on Clubhouse, and for all other opportunities, theconstructioncoach.com.au.

Todd Miller:

:

Fantastic and we, of course, will have that in the show notes as well. But just for those who may be listening and driving, oh, how do you spell Elinor? It is E-L-I-N-O-R and Moshe is M-O-S-H-E, elinormoshe.com. Well, thank you again so much. This has just been a real pleasure. Greatly appreciate your time.

Elinor Moshe:

:

My pleasure. Thank you.

Elinor Moshe:

:

Todd Miller: And thank you audience for tuning in to this episode of Construction Disruption with our guest, Elinor Moshe, founder of The Construction Coach. Elinor, what you have shared today has truly been insightful and inspiring and takes me a long way. So I love it, thank you. To our audience, please watch for future episodes of our podcast. We have lots more great guests coming up in future weeks. Don't forget to leave a review on Apple Podcasts or YouTube. And as always, change the world for someone. Make them smile, encourage them, all very powerful things that we can do to individually change the world, and what a different world we'd be speaking from today if we were all practicing that. So love on each other, be kind. God bless, take care. This is Isaiah Industries signing off until the next episode of Construction Disruption.